John
Dear SJ
American
Jesuit priest and Ploughshares activist John Dear was recently in New Zealand.
Our peace correspondent met with Fr John at the Catholic Worker in Otaki.
CG:
What would you say to the NZ government and the NZ people about our new
commitment to sending SAS troops to Afghanistan and upping our support to the
US military?
I
would say to the NZ government and people that you are making a grave mistake.
Not only are you continuing the myth that you’re going to stop terrorism
through war, you’re actually breeding terrorists. You’re part of the American machine which is turning millions
of people around the world and in Afghanistan against the West and feeling
sympathy for the Taleban. And that is happening all over the place.
So,
NZ should have nothing to do with the US war in Afghanistan. I would say bring
home every soldier today, maintain your blockade on US nuclear weapons, cut all
ties with the US war machine, whether it be satellites or whatever, and then
what you should be doing with your own history of non-violence and
peaceableness, is trying to figure out how can NZ be a light of non-violence,
peace and disarmament to the whole planet.
You’re
part of the American machine which is turning millions of people around the
world and in Afghanistan against the West and feeling sympathy for the Taleban.
NZ’s
Role
And
you could do that. The world needs that and the world will listen to NZ with
your connection with Australia and the Brits, and the Pacific Rim. You’re an
important people, and with global warming who knows where the future is going,
as an island nation and so forth. You have a moral authority and you’re losing
it by going along with the American empire. So I’m saying, it’s not going to
work, it’s impractical what you’re doing, but much more – your role is to
help the world disarm more and more and to be a thorn in the side of the American
empire, and lead other nations to non-co-operate with. The Obama administration
needs pressure from the international community to have the courage to end the
war in Iraq and to stop sending troops. And they’re stuck in the rut of 50
years of Pentagon thinking that the military is the only thing and now we’re
all just relying on the military, and that’s the only solution we know, and now
Obama is going more and more into that. He needs nations to say ‘No’ to him. I
don’t understand how NZ could be so dumb to go along with the US warriors.
CG:
Many here would regard Obama as being a new John F Kennedy, a new light of
enlightenment to lead the world to more peaceful days. Is that how you would
view the Obama administration?
I
would say yes, he is in many ways like John Kennedy, but I want much more than
John Kennedy, I want Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King and Dorothy Day,
people to help get us back to Jesus of Nazareth which is working towards
non-violent ways to resolve international conflict, abolishing extreme global
poverty and nuclear weapons and global warming, and helping the world move
towards a new kind of world, without war, a new world of non-violence. That’s
our future, that’s our only hope.
So
Obama is very bright, a brilliant speaker and charismatic and very smart, but
he’s a politician, a liberal Democrat and a big supporter of war in many ways. For
example, one of the greatest things he said is that Prague speech where he said
‘The future is a world without nuclear weapons.’ He’s right, that’s the
Christian response, that’s true leadership, to lift up the vision of the world…
Then he said, ‘Of course that will never happen in our lifetimes.’ That’s
wrong. It not only has to happen in our lifetimes, it has to happen this year
at the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty.
That’s our only hope, because the billions going into nukes we need for the
poor of the earth to relieve starvation and to begin to figure out how to clean
up the environment.
Obama
doesn’t see that and we have to push him and he’s determined to increase the
number of US troops in Afghanistan. (Obama subsequently announced troop
increases of 30,000 for Afghanistan. Ed) We’re in our ninth year of this war
and I think he could see this war going on for decades. I could go on and on; I
actually think Obama will continue the Iraq war and it’s the same old, American
military response. We need something much greater than that and the people of
the world have to push the Obama administration to do the right thing.
It
not only has to happen in our lifetimes, it has to happen this year at the
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. That’s
our only hope, because the billions going into nukes we need for the poor of the
earth to relieve starvation and to begin to figure out how to clean up the
environment.
CG:
What impact would it have for NZ to take a more independent stance in relation
to US?
It
could only be good. We don’t know how the US would respond, but you’ve already
done it in 1985 when you said ‘No’ to the presence of US nuclear weapons and
probably really angered the Reagan administration, but the impact? You inspired
millions maybe billions of people around the world to think ‘Wow! a nation can
stand up to the US.’ You inspired me, as a young activist, to take a stand and
say ‘What am I doing to get rid of nukes; I live in the US, these people did
this and who would think NZ could do it?’
You
inspired me, as a young activist, to take a stand and say ‘What am I doing to
get rid of nukes; I live in the US, these people did this and who would think
NZ could do it?’
So,
what I’m saying is nobody really knows yet the power of a true non-violent
stance and resistance to the American empire. And you’re blowing it now by
going along with Afghanistan. You already stood up to them once, I’m saying ‘Let’s
really stand up and say no to any involvement in the Afghan war’ and meanwhile
push the US more than ever in this historic moment to get rid of nukes. It’s
very important and I think the first response would be you’d inspire many
people around the world. Ireland has done some of this, Scotland is doing some
of it, Australia is not doing it. Australia is really going along… So you might
inspire Australia. Who knows the impact you’d have on the Pacific nations and
then if you could get other nations to do likewise then we might have a real
impact on the UN and the world? So, it’s again, everybody’s afraid to take a
non-violent stand but the other stand is actually scarier, to continue this
madness of war. And who knows we might lead to a great breakthrough, for
example, to the abolition of nuclear weapons. So I would say ‘Let’s take the
risk of peace’ and New Zealanders have to push their government to do the right
thing and really be a land of peace.
CG:
The non-proliferation treaties are due for signing in May 2010. How critical
are they to the future, do you think?
Some
activists say this is the most important thing happening in the planet right
now. It’s more important than global warming. It’s really hard for me to hear
that, but I’m very impressed that very serious people in the US have been
saying that. We just had a conference in Mexico last week and that’s what some
of the experts who have studied nuclear weapons are saying. If this doesn’t get
signed, within five years as many as 30 more nations could have nuclear
weapons. And then you’re talking about nukes being lost, and terrorists getting
nukes, and we’re headed toward a nuclear bomb being used, Pakistan and India or
something like that.
CG:
The non-proliferation treaties are due for signing in May 2010. How critical
are they to the future, do you think?
A: Some activists say this is the most
important thing happening in the planet right now. It’s more important than
global warming.
This
treaty would set a boundary which could then lead further, building strength for division of a world without
nukes. So every activist should be somehow or other pushing their government to
do that and everyone on the planet…So we all have to be involved in that
somehow or another. And you guys should be pushing the New Zealand government
to have a say in the UN and to be pushing the UN to make that treaty happen.